ESE 2008 - TDD symposium - feedback ESE 2007/ ideas for 2008 / brainstorming

In comparison to last year we should focus more on practical aspects of TDD in existing projects. Instead of just presenting some projects, we should try and see what the real problems are and what are some solutions, in the form of code snippets or concrete diagrams. We should go more with a "hands-on" approach, maybe writting a few classes and the corresponding test cases, or presenting some ideas for automated testing in code form.
 
A closer look at the tools that the programmers and designers can use would also be welcome. Too often we hear praise of OSGi or some other technologies, the reasons why this technology is better, but no practical "how-to"s, no information about which tools to use, etc.
 
I would like to address this in this year's workshop. We have some experience in this domain that we can share. We have developed tools with Ant and with Fitnesse that help us with automated testing and deployment. We have introduced since last year TDD in a an existing project, which was already about 3 years old. We could have a look at what that meant for us, and how and why it was possible to successfully do it.

Hi,

I would like to add some comments:

I enjoyed last years symposium. So over all, I would stay with that
with the position papers. It would be nice, if we could organize some
time for a common discussion - maybe we can group some topics from
the position papers. (i.e. "Design for testability")

Best regards,
Hans-J. Brede

Hi Christine.

Here is some feedback that may help you:

* What did you like/not like in the TDD symposia last year ?
There was too much discussion on for/against, without any solid arguments been made. Two people took over the symposium. I'd suggest tighter control of free discussions.... limit debate lengths so more aspects of TDD can be addressed.

* Did you like the symposia format - with position papers and round table discussions ?
It's good. I think making it more practical/Workshop like might be better. Show common problems (TDD with auto generated code, some best practice Unit Tests. How to design code with unit tests in mind).
Perhaps show the process of writing a test case first before any code is written. The use of Interfaces etc...

* Do you propose any improvements/changes ?
A brief introduction into the principles of TDD
Present the common arguments against TDD and you're counter points to these.

* Last year we concentrated on the practical sides of TDD in real-life projects - which focus would you prefer for this year's symposia ?
Practical is best, in my opinion.

* Do you recommend any special TDD topics which should be discussed in the symposia ?
Test Driven Development in an Agile Development process
TDD and GUI development

I thought the over all symposium was good, and the two MicroDoc people very informed. I'd like to see you show more of your code and practical insights into the work process. The project you were working on (Ski pass machine, I think) was too well suited to TDD.

I'd like to see samples deal with introducing TDD to existing projects that have already started without TDD, and more GUI applications.

Best of luck and well done on the last symposium....